Pelayo Menéndez: Achilles Comeback, Sled Push Tactics & the End of HYROX Super Teams | ENDUROX Podcast Ep. 7
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Dan Plews (00:13)
What is going on, Doctor Storey? How is your week unfolding?
Adam Storey (00:19)
The week's going good, my friend, thank you for asking. Friday here in New Zealand and it's been a bit of a hell of a week, actually, a lot of balls being juggled in the air. So I'm happy it's Friday. Probably the biggest thing I've been working on in the background is I'm off to São Paulo next month for the Red Bull HYROX Coaches Camp.
That's coming around dangerously quick, so I've been trying to organise flights, but also get on top of presentation content, so you know what that's like as well. Feeling a bit stretched, but we'll get there, my friend. What about yourself?
Dan Plews (00:59)
I'm off to Kona on Sunday, triathlon training camp for my Kona athletes. We've got seven athletes racing in Kona, so we've got a training camp going on there for ten days, which will be good, into the sun.
But anyway, we have a very, very special guest with us today. Not only is he an Elite 15 athlete, Pelayo Menéndez Fernández is also one of my very good friends. Just as a bit of an introduction for those listening who might not know who Pelayo is: he's a good friend of mine, a fellow former age-group triathlete of a very high level, and before that he was into karate, so maybe we'll talk about that, because I actually have a theory about how that helps with his crossover into HYROX.
I was looking at his stats before: out of 28 races, he's podiumed in 23. Probably one of the most consistent athletes in the HYROX space. A PB time of 55:12 for singles, 48:31 for doubles, which for a long time was the world record, alongside Rich Ryan. Most recently he's just come back from the Stockholm World Championships, where he finished third in a very exciting race after a big hiatus following a very nasty Achilles injury. Welcome to the show, Pelayo.
Pelayo Menéndez (02:53)
Thank you so much. Thank you, Dan, thank you, Adam. It's great to be here, and after listening to a few episodes of Endurox, I'm super happy to be part of the conversation. I'm pretty sure, because Adam and I have a very similar background, and Adam will provide a different perspective, we'll have a nice chat.
Dan Plews (03:11)
Exactly. Well, Adam can provide the meathead background, we'll provide the endurance background. Unfortunately Elena Rouco was supposed to be joining us today as well, but she's not feeling very well. If she was on the call, my first question would have been about your coffee machine, but without her here it won't have the same context anymore.
Pelayo Menéndez (03:33)
I have to say, Elena's parents are here at home right now, and you know how small our apartment is, so every time I go to the coffee machine I have to make four coffees. It takes quite a lot of time, so the coffee machine is being maximised, I would say.
Dan Plews (03:51)
For the listeners, I stayed with Pelayo just before the World Championships when it was in Chicago. Pelayo's very fond of his coffee machine, and he gave me a big lecture about how it's his pride and joy, a full one-to-ten step guide on how to use it properly. He finally let me use it, and then I smashed his glass all over the kitchen.
Adam Storey (04:18)
Jeez.
Dan Plews (04:19)
It all fell out. But anyway, it was very good. So, it's awesome to have you here, Pelayo. What have you been up to since Worlds in Stockholm? Where are you at with your training and preparation, and what's in store for you in 2027, I guess?
Pelayo Menéndez (04:43)
So, thankfully this is the first season in the last three years that I can properly train, because the past two summers I was badly injured, both summers, and my season kept getting delayed or postponed. After Worlds this year, because I'd collected the five wins I needed to be part of the first Elite 15 race, I could take a proper pre-season and off-season and prepare for the first race of the year with enough time.
Right now I'm in a baseline block, adapting to higher volume training, which I wasn't doing the year before because I was racing every other weekend, travelling and racing, and that's incompatible with high volume and recovery. I'm trying to adapt to these higher volume weeks, around 22 to 25 hours now, which I can handle pretty well. Once I've adapted to that I'll get more specific with intensity and HYROX-specific training closer to the major, but right now I'm not being very specific. I'm building a baseline, enjoying the summer, putting a lot of volume on the bike in particular, and, of course, gaining consistency in the run, which I didn't have the past two years.
Dan Plews (06:20)
So how have you added to that? Just to backtrack, what were you doing before? You were always a moderate volume trainer, I don't think you were ever massive, more in the 15 to 17 hour range, and now you've stepped it up.
Pelayo Menéndez (06:35)
Yeah, never more than that, I'd say 15 on average. My peak week last year was probably 17 hours, no more. Now I'm trying to lean toward tolerating higher volume, so that when intensity comes I'm ready. I want to be a bit more ready than before.
Dan Plews (07:02)
So how have you added to it? You mentioned more bike, you got yourself a gravel bike.
Pelayo Menéndez (07:08)
Yeah, you convinced me, I'm following your lead, finally. In this phase of the preparation I'm focusing on three things: running economy, so I'm doing a lot of hill repeats and short intervals trying to improve my running economy; second, max strength, trying to increase my strength reserve so that when I get more specific I don't lack strength, and it's been very good, I've now put together six consistent weeks of extra strength work, which I couldn't manage in past years; and third, adding aerobic volume. The bike is a great tool, and the gravel bike in summer here in Chicago is incredible, so I'm having a lot of fun with it, seven to eight hours a week, quite a lot of work.
Adam Storey (08:08)
It's amazing. With your strength work, what are the main key lifts you're focusing on to help develop that strength reserve, once the strength-endurance phase kicks in?
Pelayo Menéndez (08:22)
I'm working in a rep range of three to five, and doing basic stuff: back squats, deadlifts, trap bar deadlifts, power cleans, which is a movement I love and I think transfers really well to the sled pull, a lot of strict press, a bit of push press. I'm also working on my posterior chain, glutes and hamstrings, more specific work there, not in the low rep range, just to keep them engaged, because if I don't do that my glutes get lazy. Nothing crazy, nothing out of this world, very basic stuff, hitting numbers I feel comfortable with. I'm at the point now where I never go for a one-rep max, because I don't have the technique or the background for it. I'm trying to go heavy but still move the barbell at a decent speed. So, basic stuff.
Adam Storey (09:40)
Basic stuff's good, man. I liked that you're working on running economy with hill repeats. Are you doing any plyometric work at this point too? You mentioned power cleans, but any bodyweight plyo work?
Pelayo Menéndez (09:57)
Yes, I'm incorporating that into the warm-ups of the strength sessions. I started this season, because last year I wasn't confident about plyometrics due to my Achilles injury, it was a bit sketchy, so I couldn't implement that properly and I was a bit scared of jumping. This year I started doing it and I can confidently jump onto a higher box now with no problem. I'm doing a bit of everything, mini reps with very dynamic movement, or long jumps, mixing things, but I always put that in the warm-ups. I like to do very long, extended warm-ups in strength sessions, very ready, touching on things like posterior chain activation or plyometrics, but I don't do plyometric sessions by themselves.
Dan Plews (10:58)
It's quite interesting, because I think a lot of people listening will be from an endurance background, and we all get a little scared of power cleans and the Olympic lifts. Was that something you had to practise a lot? Did you pick it up easily? I can't power clean to save my life, and if I did it would look terrible.
Pelayo Menéndez (11:27)
The technique is tricky, power cleaning requires a lot of technique, and I know it's controversial for people without a strength background. I tried to learn as well as I could and do it safely. I don't feel like I'm pulling more from one side of my body than the other, nothing off through my back, everything looks consistent now, and just in case, I use a belt if I go a bit heavier.
Dan Plews (12:01)
How much are you doing in the power cleans?
Pelayo Menéndez (12:04)
Not much, I was more focused on moving it fast. I was doing the 45-pound barbell plus around 40 pounds each side for five reps, moving it fast, and that's enough for me.
Dan Plews (12:19)
We should get you to send a video over to Dr. Storey to critique. In all seriousness, that's Adam's background, right, Olympic weightlifting. I'm sure he could give you a few pointers here and there.
Pelayo Menéndez (12:30)
I mean, probably my technique is terrible, but...
Adam Storey (12:33)
No, send it, mate. You've got me salivating.
Pelayo Menéndez (12:39)
I haven't made a video of the power clean, I feel a bit shy about sharing that.
Dan Plews (12:46)
Don't worry, Pelayo, it won't leave the vicinity of the three of us. I'll look at it too.
Pelayo Menéndez (12:54)
Perfect, I want to see you doing it as well.
Dan Plews (12:57)
Mine will be worse than yours. But you mentioned your Achilles, and I was staying with you during that terrible period around the Worlds in Chicago, which was quite heartbreaking to watch and be part of. I guess with athletes there's this idea that everything happens for a reason, everyone's on their own journey. I think your journey is quite interesting, because if I'd come to you when you were an age-group triathlete and said, hey Pelayo, in a few years you're going to be sponsored by Adidas, in the Elite 15, doing HYROX professionally, you'd have said, yeah, that would be a dream, right? Everyone has their own interesting journey.
So what have you learned in that time, going back from your time as an age-group triathlete through to your injury? Did it change how you think about training, about sport, your psychology? Let's start with your triathlon background and how that impacted your move into HYROX.
Pelayo Menéndez (14:14)
You know what's interesting? I've spent so many years of my life doing sport for fun, because it was my passion and my hobby, that I still don't really consider myself a professional athlete. I mean, I am one now, but I don't take it as pressure. At this point in my life, I'm 36, and I've been competing in different sports since I was a kid, always for fun, always as an amateur, and then all of a sudden you start doing something new and become one of the best in the world. You don't know why, it just happens, and that's fun, so you keep racing.
Same thing with triathlon. I put a bit more time and resources in now, but the effort's the same as when I was doing crazy hard sessions on my triathlon journey. I started triathlon in 2011, when I moved to college, my first triathlon that year. I was racing regionally, sprints, Olympics, any triathlon I could find near where I lived, every single weekend. I raced a triathlon every weekend in summer, then moved into the cross-country season and kept racing that, then into duathlon season and kept racing that too. So it was four or five years of non-stop racing, and at that point I wasn't even coached, I had no idea about training strategies, and back in 2011 there wasn't as much information as there is now. I was just talking to people, picking up things I thought worked, and racing a lot. That's what I enjoyed.
When I moved into long-distance triathlon, which is harder to race as often, the perspective changed a bit. In 2017 I did my first half-Ironmans, and from the first one I was pretty competitive in the distance. I ended up fifth in the big Spanish half-Ironman, with guys like Pablo Dapena and Emilio Aguayo ahead of me, but I was right there with them, winning or second or third, and I was always with them. So that year I thought, maybe I'm better than I thought over the longer distance. I decided to train a bit more for half-Ironman or Ironman, and made my Ironman debut in 2022, with the pandemic in between, because I'd been training for an Ironman before the pandemic and my debut got delayed quite a lot.
Managing the duration of the whole race ended up being hard for me. For half-Ironman it was fine, I was training 12 to 14 hours a week, no more, and I kept doing the same for Ironman.
It didn't work. I wasn't able to run the marathon. So the transition from triathlon to HYROX happened almost randomly. I finished Kona in 2022, my second Ironman, and I'd just moved to Chicago, a place where riding a triathlon bike isn't easy or friendly, and I'd just got married. So it was a combination of factors that made me decide to take a break from triathlon, or stop training so seriously for it. I thought, okay, I'm living in Chicago, what else can I do here that brings people around me, something social? I decided to train for the marathon. To run it the following year you need to go through a lottery, and I didn't get in. So I had a year with no marathon, and no plan for what to do, and that's when I first heard about HYROX. It all started as a random "let's see what this is, let's have fun and do something with people." Nothing serious, I never had it in mind to become a good athlete.
Dan Plews (19:16)
It's kind of interesting, isn't it, that you were training 14 to 15 hours a week for half-Ironman and doing quite well, but now you're training more hours for HYROX, an hour-long event versus four. Do you think that's just because you've realised you have to step up to that extra level? Because realistically, if you were competing against the top 15 in the world at half-Ironman, you wouldn't have got away with 14 or 15 hours.
Pelayo Menéndez (19:49)
No, exactly. I had a full-time job at the time, I had the commitment but not the understanding I have now. Now I have the capacity to train more and to rest and recover from what I do, because before it was train, work, work, work, train, work, work, it was impossible to keep up with the recovery you need to go beyond 15 hours, at least in my case. Now I control my own schedule, I don't have a boss telling me to sit here at 8am and stay until 5. I'm the one who decides when to train, when to rest, and when to work. That's a game changer, that's what makes the difference.
Adam Storey (20:41)
Going back to your prior commitments and work, can you give the listeners a bit of background on your academic background, and what you were doing before, because I think it's extremely fascinating?
Pelayo Menéndez (20:57)
Thank you for bringing that up, I think people don't know this. I studied civil engineering in Spain, then did a masters in coastal engineering, then a PhD, also in Spain, in coastal engineering, specifically evaluating the flood protection services of coastal ecosystems. Basically, I was putting a value on coastal ecosystems so insurance companies could work out rates, how much homeowners near the coast should pay based on how much the coral reef in front of their houses was worth in terms of flood protection, or a mangrove, or any other ecosystem, because they were giving protection people didn't realise. My PhD was on the global-scale economic value of those ecosystems, and I have a couple of well-known papers, I'm still getting a lot of citations, near a thousand on one of them, which is pretty cool, and I published in Nature.
I spent twelve years of my life in that academic field. When I finished my PhD I got a job offer in California from the University of California, moved there for my postdoc, same topic, same area, and then became a project scientist at UC. In the meantime I discovered HYROX. Between my passion, which is sport, and my career, which was in that science field, I decided to go with sport, because I'm 36, and I don't know how long I'll get this opportunity in my life. It's once in a lifetime, and I can always go back to my previous job. I'm super happy I made that decision. I have to thank Elena, she was the one pushing me to make this decision, and it's been great. It's a year and a half since I quit my job, and I don't regret it.
Adam Storey (23:24)
That's absolutely amazing. And just for the listeners' perspective, to publish in Nature, one of the absolute top scientific journals out there, to get a publication or a review in there is extremely tricky. The fact you've got a publication in there, hats off to you, that's incredible.
Dan Plews (23:46)
I don't know many sports science papers that have made it into Nature, if any. I don't think Adam or I will ever achieve that, I can't think of one.
Pelayo Menéndez (23:55)
But it's not fair, really, the topic we were working on was probably more attractive to Nature than a sport-related thing, it doesn't mean the quality is better, it's just a more interesting topic.
Dan Plews (25:06)
To keep on the topic of your PhD and academic background, we worked together, you were coaching me in the lead-up to Chicago last year, and it was great, apart from the sleds, I was undone by the sleds. Otherwise I let you down, between the two of us we had a disastrous World Championships. But anyway. One of the things that attracted me to your coaching was your academic background, I knew you were a deep thinker with a very analytical mind, which most run-of-the-mill coaches just don't have. How do you think your academic background has shaped your coaching, and also your racing? Because I think you're quite an analytical racer too, very systematic, very calculated in your approach. Do you think that's just who you are, and one of your biggest strengths? Let's talk about coaching first, then your own racing.
Pelayo Menéndez (26:23)
That's a good question. Yeah, definitely, as you said, I'm very analytical, I like to question everything and see how I can find marginal gains anywhere in the sport. HYROX is eight stations and running, there's not that much to it. It looks like a lot, but there isn't, so why not try to nail the smallest detail and be as efficient as possible? I think my coaching and my approach are based on efficiency, being very specific to the demands of the race, what's required to go as fast as possible from A to B, and what's in between, and trying to maximise that.
The coaching evolves over time, it's not static, but I think I was one of the first Elite 15 athletes to bring this endurance approach to the sport. I was convinced from the first minute that it was an endurance sport, which at the time was the opposite of what everyone else was thinking. For most people it was a strength sport with a bit of running. For me it was a running race with a minimum level of strength you need to hit, and very good economy in executing the movements. So yeah, I think the analytical aspect is what defines my coaching approach.
Dan Plews (28:14)
The other part was, you're quite strategic in the way you race too.
Pelayo Menéndez (28:19)
Yeah, racing is more about experience, I think. I've done so many races in my life, I've been on start lines so many times with different goals but the same effort at the end.
Dan Plews (28:37)
It's not easy to transfer your triathlon background into HYROX, I don't think. If you look at my own background, if you put me on a triathlon start line, given my training, I'd bet I'd always put in a good race. But right now, in HYROX, I can't guarantee that, because I just don't have the experience. Do you think there's really that much crossover? The feeling and the sensations aren't the same. It's hard, because when it comes to training and racing, the racing is so important, the sensations you feel in a race are what you need to bring into training, and it's really hard to get those until you've done it a number of times and you really feel them. It's impossible for me to tell you what it feels like to run the last ten K of an Ironman, it's like you can't explain it until you've done it. I think it's hard to cross over just from racing, don't you think?
Pelayo Menéndez (29:42)
Yeah, but if I think about my first HYROX race, I had no clue what to expect, I was in a very unknown space, but when I started racing, for whatever reason, I felt very familiar with the situation. It's true that racing an Ironman isn't the same as racing HYROX, there's a lot in a HYROX race that would surprise you, but I think it's closer to what I used to do in my first years of triathlon, racing sprints, super sprints, Olympics...
Dan Plews (30:22)
Yeah, sprint distance, two-oh-ones.
Pelayo Menéndez (30:26)
Duathlons, cross-country, all draft-legal, where tactics play a huge role. I was always a game player, I loved the tactics on the bike, I loved fighting against other teams, attacking or sitting in, playing with tactics, and I think I learned a lot from that background, it comes very naturally when it comes to racing. From my very first HYROX race I felt comfortable, in control from start to finish. It was an open race, of course, but I did 59 minutes, which at the time was the first time anyone had broken 59 in the open division in the US.
Dan Plews (31:18)
No, wow.
Pelayo Menéndez (31:20)
Look at the level now. But yeah, I think it comes naturally, though it's not the same as long-distance triathlon. It was very close, and running after the sleds is the closest feeling I've had since sprint triathlons.
Dan Plews (31:37)
So true. I've been doing this session recently, I told you about it the other week, where you go to a hundred calories on the assault bike and then finish with ten minutes of running. It's so good, I really feel it, because you get the heart rate up very high, above threshold on the assault bike, then try to recover on the runs, but you also get that familiar leg pump from the assault bike. It's so good. What mistakes do you see people coming into HYROX from triathlon make in their racing approach?
Pelayo Menéndez (32:19)
Basically trying to be competitive from the beginning without understanding the sport. You need to know the movements. If you come from an endurance background where strength is a weakness, and you're not going to be the strongest in the field, you have to maximise your resources, and to do that you have to be as economical as possible in every movement. First, learn the technique perfectly, execute every movement perfectly, try different movement patterns. I mean breaking each station down into as many parts as possible. For example, with a burpee, how many times do you touch the ground, what's the best way to step up off the floor, these small details people don't pay attention to, they just try to do it all in one go. You have to split it up and understand the best way for you to stand up, the best way to touch the floor, the best body position for lunges, where you'll feel most comfortable. If you don't test different inclinations of your body, you'll never understand what's going on there.
Now that it's a well-established sport, people coming from a triathlon background already have a time in their head, and they think they're ready to hit that time, and that's a big mistake. They need to pay attention to efficiency first. Strength takes longer to build, and in my case, because I had no experience with strength training before HYROX, I was very specific. In the first few months training for my first pro race, I was doing everything in the stations, trying to understand every station, trying to go heavier, sometimes lighter, but the strength work was in the specific movement patterns of the stations at the beginning, which probably wasn't optimal, but given that I wanted to race in three months, I didn't know how else to do it. I'd never done a back squat in my life, so what could I get from something I'd never done in that time? I was better off being specific: heavy sled pulls, heavy sled pushes, a lot of barbell lunges, like I told you a long time ago.
So, very specific with strength, and a very analytical approach to movement patterns and economy.
Adam Storey (35:19)
It's really important to get the basics of the fundamental race movements down first, that's absolutely fine and critical. If I rewind a bit, back to triathlon, you said you really enjoy the tactical racing elements. So fast-forward to HYROX now: can you walk us through your tactical race brain, leading into the race, in the warm-up area, and then during the execution of the race? What are your tactics, and does that differ race to race?
Pelayo Menéndez (36:01)
It changes depending on the quality of the field. If you're racing a regular age-group race, it's yourself against yourself, so you can pace a bit more evenly and smart. But racing in a league is a different beast, you don't want to find yourself forty seconds behind after the sled push, it can play against your mindset. It depends on the race. This past season I did a lot of solo pro races in fields that weren't as competitive as the Elite 15, so I could pace myself, my only concern was getting to the sled push as fresh and controlled as possible. That was my main approach: forget what's going on around you, get to the sled push feeling strong, and from there it's more like you enter a flow state where you just keep going, grinding and grinding. I don't think much after that in terms of tactics, I think a lot before the sled push.
At the sled push, I try to attack it depending on how it feels, because it's very inconsistent. Heavy pushes you handle differently to light pushes. This past year, racing solo seven times, I had races where I had to stop three times in the first lane, and races where I didn't stop at all in the first two lanes, went non-stop back and forth. You have to understand that and put your ego aside, focus on what your execution has to be. For me, the tactics end at the sled push. After that, it's racing, that's where you start.
Adam Storey (37:57)
That's interesting, that it's so early in the race, that sled push milestone. I've spoken to a few athletes with a similar viewpoint, that they want to come out of the sleds in a good state, but if they get a bad lane or extra heavy sleds that day, that's almost their race ended, either metaphorically or mentally. I've had to point those athletes to examples like Dylan Scott, who only led the race in the final two seconds this year to win it. If you got a spanner in the works and your sled wasn't great, what do you flick into to make sure the rest of your race is still good? How do you pull yourself back from a bad sled?
Pelayo Menéndez (38:49)
I try to anticipate a bad sled. If you get a sled push that doesn't move at all, like it happened to me at the World Championships in Chicago...
Dan Plews (39:07)
Just as a caveat there, Pelayo, I definitely went very hard on the ski and very hard on the first runs, and got to the sled push right on the cusp, so it didn't end well.
Pelayo Menéndez (39:22)
It never ends well if you over-ski it. But if you find a hard sled that you can still move, you need to know your sled time is within a range you already know is controllable, and based on the time you get, you understand the race after will feel different. If I do a two-twenty sled push, I know the next section, the sled pull and the following run, particularly those three sections, will be less affected than if I do a three-thirty, which is what I was doing in Mexico with the heavy sleds we had this past season. You just need to adapt and accept, that's the only thing. The main problem for people is they feel disappointed and think the race is over when it's not. It takes a bit to recover, and your time probably won't be your best, but compared to the competition, you're still in the fight. So it's about accepting the situation, going through the next run a little more painfully and slower, getting through the sled pull a bit more painfully, and after the third run, you'll probably start feeling better again. But you need to accept it's heavy.
Dan Plews (40:48)
Are you training on the centre turf now, Pelayo? Where you train, is it actually the centre turf?
Pelayo Menéndez (40:56)
Yeah, Summit Fitness Chicago is a new centre here, and they have it.
Dan Plews (40:59)
So what's your take on why there seems to be inconsistency between lanes, why sometimes it's hard and sometimes not? Any ideas?
Pelayo Menéndez (41:14)
Yeah, it's very unpredictable. I have eight lanes to train on every day at the gym, eight different sleds, so I get a feel for every situation. I can tell you the lane properties change not just day to day, but within the same minute you're pushing, it can change.
There's a few factors. First, the condition of the sled itself, how damaged it is underneath the rails, if it's a bit damaged the roughness and friction increases massively. This turf is very sensitive to the roughness of the sled, very sensitive, it wasn't the case with the previous carpet, where the sled could be in bad condition but the friction was still manageable. With this turf, if the sled is old, the friction is way more. That's the first factor. Second is humidity and temperature. Humidity changes the properties of the carpet, if you push on a humid carpet it can feel either very easy or impossible.
Dan Plews (42:30)
There seems to be a crossover point, isn't there, a certain level of moisture where it tips over and gets slipperier, starts sliding.
Pelayo Menéndez (42:42)
Exactly, that's the thing. If it's humid, and you find a situation where it moves fast, for whatever reason, the temperature or friction creates temperature changes in the interaction between the two surfaces, and it slows down. So you can find a wall in the same lane. I'm talking about very high humidity conditions, very light and fast for the first few metres, then you find a wall where you can't move it, in the same lane, which is crazy. So it's unpredictable, and hard to anticipate how it's going to feel. Race courses with good air conditioning and low humidity are easier to control, because it's only the friction of the sled, how damaged it is, that determines whether it's hard or not, and in that case it feels hard the same way from start to finish. But if you add humidity, everything becomes a mess.
My takeaway from training on the centre turf and centre equipment is: go low, no matter what. Push the sled as low as possible, so you're ready for any situation. If you go with your chin up, which we see very often, and we see that in the Elite 15 because the sleds there are easier, if you're very strong maybe you can get away with it, but I need to go low no matter what.
Dan Plews (44:25)
That was going to be my question, do you have different techniques depending on how heavy the sled is, or are you just going for the same low technique all the time?
Pelayo Menéndez (44:36)
Now it's always go low. I find it very comfortable putting my head to the side of the pole and going low. If you look at the speed I was moving the sled at the World Championships, doubles of course, but comparing to the other Elite 15 athletes, I'm probably the weakest, or one of the weakest, on the sled push, but I was moving it quite fast. This is something I introduced this past year, based on what I was feeling with the turf, that sometimes it was impossible to push it high, there was no way. So that's why I always go low, whatever I find, I can get through it.
Adam Storey (45:12)
It's amazing, HYROX must be 24/7 on your mind, being so analytical, and living with the lovely Elena. How do you unplug from HYROX? I often talk to my athletes about the need for physical recovery, but people think of recovery as just taking a break from training, when you also need a cognitive break from the sport. If you've constantly got HYROX on the mind, or in the chat at home, what are you doing to unplug a bit?
Pelayo Menéndez (45:51)
This is a really useful question for a lot of people. We live in a full HYROX environment at home, we have a coaching company about HYROX, I'm a full-time athlete, Elena's also a very high-level athlete, and we train twenty-plus hours a week. Anything besides working or training, we try to stay away from. We try to organise plans that have nothing to do with HYROX, and reserve at least one day, and half of another day, during the week to do something different, where we don't connect to the phone, where we're a bit away from the sport. Not because we feel overwhelmed, honestly I don't feel overwhelmed by HYROX, I love it so much it's part of my life, I wouldn't mind talking about it all the time, but I don't want to be stuck in the same thing all day.
So we try to have more resources to talk to people and keep our minds fresh, reading, going to the cinema, the other day we went to a Formula One simulator, an arcade driving simulator. We do a bunch of things that have nothing to do with HYROX.
Dan Plews (47:31)
That's a massively important aspect for sure.
Pelayo Menéndez (47:35)
And you have kids, so it's easier for you to stay...
Dan Plews (47:39)
Yeah, there's nothing more humbling to make you forget about sport than your kids. I always tell the story: when I did Ironman California and won it, went under eight hours, my son Jakey just went, "Yeah, okay, whatever, Dad." Then that night I threw a blueberry in the air and caught it in my mouth, and he went, "Oh my gosh, that is amazing!" I was like, don't worry about it. They give you a reality check.
Pelayo Menéndez (48:17)
They bring you back into the reality of life.
Dan Plews (48:24)
Pelayo, we talked a bit about your Achilles injury, so that's behind you now, and you came back to get third at the World Championships in the doubles, with Rich Ryan. What's next for you in the doubles space? Are you going to get a US passport, or what's going to happen?
Pelayo Menéndez (48:52)
I have the green card, but not the passport, so I can't race under the US flag. If I were a citizen I'd love to keep racing with Rich, we synchronise really well, we understand each other, we have very similar skills, which is the most important thing in a doubles partner, you need to be similar to maximise your capacities. So, long story short, I'm not doing doubles, I'm sticking to singles from now on. It's hard, living in the US, Emilio was one of my main options, we talked about doing doubles, but with the new system you need three races which you basically have to win. There'll be places in the world where it's going to be hard, probably need five attempts to win three races at our level, and we'd have to travel so much. Add that on top of the singles qualification process, five races plus at least fifteen races and everything, it was too much, it wasn't simple.
So I decided to take the risk of trying to qualify again for solo. I won't say I did it, because the ranking is still evolving, and even maximising my points there are still scenarios where people get the same points I have and I get rolled down below fifteenth. But I think I did all I could, playing the game of racing and getting the 525 points. That's been my season.
Dan Plews (51:13)
Do you think, because HYROX is getting so much more competitive and the training's getting more scientific, that we'll reach a point where we have athletes who focus solely on singles and athletes who focus solely on doubles, and see less crossover gradually? Because my feeling is the training doesn't actually have to be that different between the two, just a bit more wall ball density as a single, maybe a bit more high-end speed running, but nothing too different.
Pelayo Menéndez (51:52)
Yeah, and that's why the best doubles athletes are still some of the best singles athletes, or the same, because there's not much difference in the training style. I'm pretty sure Alex Rončević and Tim Wenisch didn't train specifically for doubles, they'd been training for their single races at the World Championships, and they won hands down. There are specialists in doubles, I'm pretty sure someone like Jake Williamson has very good skills specifically for doubles. But in general, I think we'll keep seeing the best singles athletes trying doubles, or at least the best doubles pairs being formed by very good single athletes, particularly young people who can handle two races without issue, because racing back to back, Thursday-Friday or Friday-Saturday, at the highest level, is the tricky part, that's the most difficult thing for me, plus doing so many races to qualify. When they're young it's easier. So I don't think there'll be many people who go purely into doubles because they lack the capacity for singles, because in my opinion singles is still one step ahead of doubles in terms of difficulty to get there. But yes, I think it'll be a mix, just not many pure specialists in the top field.
Adam Storey (53:25)
It'll be interesting, because with the change we won't have those super teams anymore, like yourself and Rich, or Alex and Tim. I've got a feeling that because there are no more super teams, and people are having to pair with people from their own country, there'll be more specialists coming through the woodwork who'll need to knuckle down. It'll be interesting to see what happens, there'll probably be a dip in results for a while, times not being as quick as those super teams, but sport is sport, it'll pick up and surpass what's previously been set, which would be cool to see.
Dan Plews (54:09)
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what they do with the world records, because theoretically the super teams have got the records now, and by default it's hard to beat them, because you're choosing two of the best athletes from two different countries, you've got a bigger pool to draw from.
Pelayo Menéndez (54:25)
I think the doubles world record will be very, very hard to beat, it was the best two in the world, on the best course, in the best conditions. I don't see that record being broken very soon.
Dan Plews (54:37)
Yeah, you don't see it being beaten. What do you think you can do in the singles, Pelayo? How far do you think you can take it?
Pelayo Menéndez (54:49)
That's a question I ask myself every time I step on the start line, and I never know. It's kind of interesting, every single race I've raced in the Elite 15 singles, the last one was Chicago, the World Championships, where I was injured, so I knew what was going to happen going in. But normally, I always surprise myself. I start a race, get into the ski, get off it, and think, "my god, I don't belong in this field, what am I doing?"
Dan Plews (55:30)
You've talked to me about this before, and I think it's important for anyone listening, I think we all suffer a bit from this, that level of imposter syndrome. Even in the academic space sometimes, I was on a call last week with some massive academics and just thought, man, I shouldn't be here, I'm not that smart. But I think it's healthy to some degree, because it means you're never taking anything for granted, always on your toes, always looking at what you should improve. How have you dealt with that imposter syndrome? Are you doing anything to help with it?
Pelayo Menéndez (56:13)
I take it as an advantage rather than a downside. It helps me a lot, it removes pressure, every single thing I do in the race becomes a surprise, and then I cross the finish line and think, I'm one of the best in the world, another surprise. And I think, yes, I belong here. I think that's a good approach for me. I'm not the most talented athlete, I'm not the fastest, I'm not the strongest, and that's probably why I was never a very high-level triathlete, I put in the effort, but in a sport with so many good people it was impossible for me to turn professional. At this point, 36 years old, I take whatever comes. Besides the World Championships where I was injured, my worst finish in an Elite 15 race was eighth, I podiumed once, was fourth in the world twice, once in Hong Kong, so I've always been in the top six to eight. I think I just need to play my own game and focus on myself. I don't pay much attention to what other people are doing in terms of training, I see what they do, but I don't draw conclusions from it. If they have a certain basis in their sessions, okay, that's fine, I have mine, I know what I'm doing, and I don't worry about it.
Adam Storey (58:06)
That's such an important point, so many people look to social media and try to emulate what other people are doing, or get worried seeing other people pumping up big sessions.
Pelayo Menéndez (58:18)
I don't like comparing myself to others, I like to see what they do and learn from it, see if there's something we can try, but in a good way, not just to say, oh my god, I'm so far behind. I'm not that kind of person.
Dan Plews (58:34)
But you know, Pelayo, I think someone like yourself, with that analytical mind who understands training programmes, is in a much better position to look at sessions online and know what to do with them. If you have a level of knowledge where you can see a session and understand its output and demands, you can fit it within a programme, whereas a lot of people can't, they fit it in randomly within the week, and that's when they come undone. I think that's the major problem with just giving out sessions online.
Pelayo Menéndez (59:09)
Yeah, there's a lot of noise, and some people think they can train by picking things randomly, and it's not that simple.
Adam Storey (59:19)
On that topic, if you jumped into a time machine and went back to 2022, and bumped into yourself, and I know if you go back to the future you can't disrupt anything, but if you could, what advice would you give yourself about training, and about how to prepare for what's ahead in your sporting career?
Pelayo Menéndez (59:48)
You mean before I heard about HYROX, or just when I heard about it?
Adam Storey (59:52)
Just when you're starting off in HYROX.
Pelayo Menéndez (59:57)
To be honest, at this point I wouldn't change anything, I'd just say, keep doing what you feel like doing. I say that because it's easy now, seeing how things went, but I'd say, keep doing what you feel you have to do, and if it's a sport that motivates you, go all in for it, like you always have in your life, and don't think twice. The other best advice I can give people is to trust the people close to you, your relatives, they'll always want the best for you. Any advice you can take from your wife or your parents that's aligned with your philosophy, listen to it. I don't mean if you want to do this and they say no, I mean if you're hesitant, wondering should I quit my job, should I do this, try to be surrounded by people who push you in the same direction. That's important, otherwise I wouldn't be in this place. Never, never, never...
Dan Plews (1:01:11)
That's really good. It reminds me of two things: one is a saying, "tentative has no power," one of my favourites, if you don't go all in on something you'll never get anywhere. But also the reverse, someone told me, never take criticism from anyone you wouldn't take advice from. Same concept, the people around you, the people you look up to, are the people you should be listening to, your parents, your wife, your best friends, your mentors, your coaches, whoever that might be. Pelayo, to finish off, are you happy the HYROX Cruise is no longer a major?
Pelayo Menéndez (1:01:53)
To be honest, I wasn't against the cruise, I wasn't one of the people who were super against it, I accepted it as part of the system and the game. Of course I prefer to race in Hamburg. The one who's sad is Elena, she thought she'd go on a cruise for a few weeks, now she's looking at Hamburg.
Dan Plews (1:02:17)
Maybe Elena can go anyway. Are you still going on the cruise, or not?
Pelayo Menéndez (1:02:20)
I think I'd rather stay in a controlled environment and train for Hamburg. It's only two weeks out, one week before Hamburg I think, so I'd rather stay away from anything else.
Dan Plews (1:02:44)
So it's eight weeks to Hamburg now, is it? Eight weeks on Monday.
Pelayo Menéndez (1:02:50)
Eight weeks. Beforehand we had the same schedule, now I'm one week behind, well, ahead of you, I'd say, because you're racing the same weekend as the cruise, and I'm racing...
Dan Plews (1:03:03)
I'm not doing Shanghai anymore, I'm doing Singapore. But Pelayo, it's been great. We wish we could have had Elena on here too, I wanted to ask who'd win a contest of the fastest ten burpees between you two.
Pelayo Menéndez (1:03:29)
She'd take anything that lasts less than thirty seconds.
Dan Plews (1:03:35)
Ha.
Pelayo Menéndez (1:03:37)
No way. Every single workout, it's funny, because I pace everything, I'm a smart thinker, I go, okay, I need to get through the entire workout in a controlled way, I don't want to overcook myself. She just races against me on everything. Last week we were doing a hundred burpees, then eighty metres, then sixty metres, reducing the distance each time, and she'd start next to me, or half a lane ahead, and by the end she'd be two lanes ahead of me. That's Elena.
Dan Plews (1:04:19)
Keeps you honest. I'll never forget when we did that HYROX endurance session with you, doing circles, and Elena was just absolutely sending it, and you were trying to keep up, and I was like, oh my gosh.
Pelayo Menéndez (1:04:35)
She kills me, she's the best training partner in that regard, because she pushes me so much in those HYROX endurance sessions, it's fun.
Dan Plews (1:04:45)
And Elena's got a new doubles partner now, right?
Pelayo Menéndez (1:04:48)
Yeah, we're racing next weekend in Acapulco, Mexico, doing mixed doubles again, the last one was back in April.
Dan Plews (1:04:58)
But she's got a new female doubles partner too, right?
Pelayo Menéndez (1:05:02)
She did, but we got the news yesterday that she's no longer racing with the other girl, the other girl's coach decided she wasn't racing with Elena, so at this point she doesn't have a partner for pro doubles, we're still on the search.
Dan Plews (1:05:26)
Well, if anyone's listening to the ENDUROX Podcast, shout out, Elena's looking for a new partner, gotta be fast.
Pelayo Menéndez (1:05:30)
Yeah, we need a new partner. She was at the Elite 15 World Championships in Chicago, so she's good.
Dan Plews (1:05:41)
She's speedy, alright. Anything else, Dr. Storey, before we let Pelayo go and thank him for his time?
Adam Storey (1:05:50)
It's always a good chat, I've got so many more questions, but I'm conscious of your time. But the hundred-metre burpees got me wondering, what's the spiciest session you've done recently? Tell us, as a bit of a challenge for our listeners.
Pelayo Menéndez (1:06:05)
It was yesterday, no, Tuesday, sorry, yesterday was Wednesday here, so Tuesday. It was a grip strength session designed by Elena, not my idea, sometimes I do things that aren't in my plan because I have to.
Dan Plews (1:06:35)
Do you remember, Pelayo, when I was in Brazil and did that one session, hundreds and hundreds of burpees, and I said to you, man, that was ridiculous, and you said, yeah, that was Elena's idea? It was so hot, I was sweating everywhere, and the cleaner kept coming over getting angry at me.
Pelayo Menéndez (1:07:00)
Sometimes it's good to go through a humbling experience like that. We were doing... the workout was with two 35-pound dumbbells: fifteen deadlifts, twelve power cleans, nine front squats, without ever dropping the dumbbells, six thrusters, and three push presses, into a fifty-metre farmer's carry, four rounds, and man, I literally died.
Dan Plews (1:07:48)
How are your hands this morning, how are your forearms? What weight were you doing on the dumbbells?
Pelayo Menéndez (1:07:54)
35 pounds each.
Adam Storey (1:07:56)
Wow.
Pelayo Menéndez (1:07:59)
For me it was a bit too much, I think. I had a really hard time, because the idea is you can rest, but you can't drop the dumbbells, you have to rest with them on you. That's Elena's idea of having fun.
Adam Storey (1:08:18)
There you go, a good challenge for our listeners out there.
Dan Plews (1:08:18)
There you go, that can be the show challenge. You've still got to do that bike-and-run-off-the-bike session I told you about, though.
Pelayo Menéndez (1:08:31)
I will, but I'll wait for the more specific phase so it fits better with intensity, because the sessions you send me are spicy.
Dan Plews (1:08:41)
Yeah, they are spicy, but you know, go hard or go home, I'm here for a good time, not a long time. Alright team, awesome, thanks Pelayo, and get well soon, Elena. Thanks everyone for listening.
Pelayo Menéndez (1:08:56)
Thank you so much for having me, thank you.
Adam Storey (1:08:58)
Legend, thank you, mate.
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